And so that's what Gandalf was pretending to do, while they were actually taking the Ring to Mt. We know of his ultimate betrayal against Middle-earth, maybe especially against his fellow Wizards and the Valar. He could turn invisible and go slowly crazy, which seem to be the width of the one ring's powers. The chapter is a partly published version of a manuscript now held at the Marquette University (MSS 4/2/31-37); [1] other parts of this manuscript and a time scheme have been included in The . Or perhaps his lust for power would have blinded him to that? For example, Beregond is reprimanded for leaving his post but is assigned to a position of honor by Aragorn in recognition of why he disobeyed. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. If you know how to use it, its an *extremely* powerful magical artifact. But now that he was back in Mordor, he was openly . The first and most obvious reason Galadriel gets to hang on to her Ring - Nenya, the Ring of Water - from beginning (i.e. It was his own and under his will. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. But it will still never truly be his & he will have to continually fight to dominate it as the One Ring wants to return to its master, who cannot be banished until the Ring is destroyed. In fact, as recent graduate of Greensboro College's honors program, Blake wrote his thesis on Star Wars and its religious connections. (OK, just a Numenorean with the largest army and navy in all of history.) When Sauron was in Dol Guldur, he lay dormant most of the time. What are the benefits of digital signatures? It may not display this or other websites correctly. The Lord Of The Rings. If we have not credited an artist, it is because we could not find an owner of the art. It didn't have to shoot out lighting bolts to be an uber blade. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. . In this scenario, Sauron likely would have recovered his Ring and covered all the lands in a second darkness. It would have been the master in the end. If any being who had the power to use the Ring to its full potential had gotten ahold of it, that being would have been able to easily take on Sauron. If the Stranger is actually Gandalf, think about it from a character development standpoint. If he could obtain or recreate the One Ring for himself, he would be able to rule Middle-earth just like Sauron did. They were basically the teachers pet ones who lived closest to the Valar and did not trouble themselves (except once) with the problems of Middle-Earth. When Sauron thought Aragorn had the Ring, he reacted with a swift military offensive. Today we jump back in time to one of our older videos at one of our What If scenarios! Through them Tolkien shows Faramir and Eomer's quality was in not being blind followers of loyalty and obedience to king and father but seeing a bigger picture and being obedient to a greater purpose. Knowing where he ends up would make the Strangers current journey all the more fascinating. Tolkiens trilogy its even plastered on the cover of several editions of the books. This is what Sauron feared that his enemies would do, if they got the Ring; and that's the only reason he feared them. He regained his identity and seemingly his memories, but the Stranger did not say, Hi, Nori, I have a name and its Gandalf. His friendship with the adventurous Harfoot, his mannerisms, and some of his lines ring true for Gandalf the Grey. It was never explained how, but the Elves found a way to block Saurons sight from their Rings. Sauron was much the stronger, but a lot of his power is in the ring. Unfortunately, Sauron had got on the wrong side of a particularly powerful race: the Nmenreans.The isle of Nmenr was a realm of men that sat apart from Middle-earth and those who lived there were more powerful than the men seen elsewhere in The Lord of . These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. We dont know if the Stranger will make it to his destination and the show could certainly deviate from lore or invent new history ( as it has done already). Well? So what's a few millennia. There's a moment near the end of The Two Towers when one of the Nazgul comes literally within arms' reach of the Ring.It happens in the ruined city of Osgiliath. There was a Winged Nazgul operating near the area as well on the other side of the Anduin and thus closer to Frodo. Please message us if we have not credited you! Let's first look at what would happen if Saruman succeeded, and then at his strategy for defeating Sauron. When the Valar realized Sauron had returned, they sent the Istari to help the peoples of Middle-earth. He starts on a similar path as Gandalf, but his choices and hunger for power lead him to evil. It's interesting here that since both Sauron and Saruman were in origin Maiar of Aule, they may be expected to have some knowledge of each other, and that they would have some idea of each other's strengths and weaknesses. If he could obtain or recreate the One Ring for himself, he would be able to rule Middle-earth just like Sauron did. It does not store any personal data. Saruman would have made a tasty little morsel for Sauron. When given the opportunity It would betray Its wearer, and find Its way back to Its Master. Mostly, though, he most enjoys writing about Star Wars. However, that's not the most likely scenario. This just had to be the best designed set, even better than the 2017 UCS Millennium Falcon! Maybe, though i dont know that much about Sauman's power and. Although this is never explicitly stated, Galadriel alluded to the Fact that Gandalf, . IIRC the idea of Galadriel taking it scared the bejeezus out of him. The stone had a green/purple coloring. Is Bosnia a developing or developed country? Still, this is a point to consider. We'll pick u. It may not display this or other websites correctly. In the book it is sort of implied that certain beings with sufficient power (e.g. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. Tolkien's complex writings and retcons don't reveal a crystal-clear answer about Saruman arriving first, but if you go by The Silmarillion, Saruman did. After all, he was extremely powerful in his own right. Did Peter Jackson take inspiration for Gollum from "Dracula 1931" movie. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. In conclusion, if a Maia (Gandalf or Saruman) would get and use the ring, a bitter fight to the end would ensue between the keeper of the ring and Sauron, a fight even more bitter than the one between elves and orcs, Gondor and Mordor, much like an evil kinstrife to the death. How long before Sauron wrung out the truth from Saruman? Then Sauron would have had the ring again and either he'd keep Saruman as a servant or just get rid of him for trying to be his equal. Imagine that, after breaking of Fellowship, Saruman`s Uruk-Hai capture Frodo and bring him, with the ring, to Isengard. New Movie News, Movie Trailers & upcoming Movie Reviews, Saruman Gaining the One Ring Would Have Doomed Middle-earth Even Faster, Thranduil Was a Jerk - But Lord of the Rings' Only Dark Elf Was Actually Evil, How Morgoth Created Glaurung and The Lord of the Rings' Dragons, REVIEW: Frank Miller Presents Ancient Enemies: The Djinni #1 Crafts a Compelling Origin Story, REVIEW: DC's Shazam! Does this sword yield more power than the ring? Please don't forget to subscribe to stay up to date with all future content! Sauron was not a run of the mill foe and an ordinary blade wielded by an ordinary man would not have sufficed. Did Aragorn ever offer the ring to Frodo? But Saruman was always too prideful for his companions. Saruman was most skilled in Ring Lore, save Sauron. Nazgul were formidable opponants, under the right circumstances. His three friends were smiling at him, but Gandalf was only managing an embarrassed smile towards the Lady. Behind Naruto, Gandalf stood straighter, and began to comb his beard with his fingers. Also, it says in the book that the Nazgul went to Isengard demanding news of the ring and if Sauraman had the ring, Sauraman said if I had the ring you would bow down to me and call me lord I think Saruman would've won if he captured the ring. In the books it is mentioned several times that Sauron fears one of the uber good guys getting hold of the Ring. It would be a delicate balance. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. He only knew an orc band was loose and could cause problems and he feared an alliance between Saruman and Sauron which would be bad for Rohan so off he went. It's possible Saruman would have been able to defeat Sauron. The Lord of the Rings (LOTR) by J. R. R. Tolkien is one of the greatest and most famous epic fantasy series in English literature. What about Galadrial? The situation in The Lord of the Rings was pretty dire. Sorry, memory fails me ATM. We dont know any details about his activities in Rhn or his other easterly travels. The Silmarillion says Saruman was the eldest Istari and came first. What video game is Charlie playing in Poker Face S01E07? For more information, please see our Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Balrogs are intelligent sentient beings. Saruman tries to master the ring, but he doesn't completely achieve such mastery. He would have been able to control more people, and he would have had a much easier time dominating their wills. What about orcs, or trolls wielding the rings taken from the dwarves? Anybody else who bore it (non-stop) would eventually be drawn to him, where he would get the Ring back. Got caught and lost a mind-to-mind battle. Saruman is ruined when the Riders of Rohan defeat his army and Merry and Pippin prompt the Ents to destroy Isengard. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Obviously, the Uruk-hai didn't make it back to Isengard, and they didn't have the Ring anyway. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. His actions were more indirect as his decision was of non-action in not taking Frodo to Minas Tirith. (Letter 246). He says: "Even reckoned as a lord and captain Saruman has grown very strong Saruman also had a mind to capture the Ring for himself [Sauron] now has Isengard to fear as well as Minas Tirith" The word "fear" seems important here. Gil Galad, and the last alliance also defeated Sauron, without the help of the Maiar, as well. Why Rings of Powers Fight Scenes Are Boring. Saruman had full control of his army, which is why the Hobbits were being brought to him (because they maybe had the ring), instead of immediately to Sauron (who at the time of their capture, they were much closer to). Since Sauruman was once justly revered as among the great, by such as Elrond, and even Gandalf, it seems that he might well have been able to use the ring against Sauron successfully. I think people project a kind of loaded weapon mentality onto the rings which is misleading. Sauron would also realize the captured Halflings did not have the Ring so all the doubt surrounding Aragorn having it would be absent. Anybody else who bore it (non-stop) would eventually be drawn to him, where he would get the Ring back. First its a lucky hit, now its a super-human with a magical super-sword? But what would have happened if things had worked out differently? Thus, the power of the Ring is both direct (like the power of a weapon) and symbolic (like the power of a cult object). Elemental Staffs. With the more powerful becoming all the more corrupted. Frodo would have continued into Mordor and odds are he would have been discovered there. But if they did, Saruman would have had the One Ring in his possession. You must log in or register to reply here. Saruman with the Ring would presumably have tried to do what Tolkien says Galadriel or Gandalf might have done, if they have succumbed to the temptation of accepting the Ring: "they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force." What TV series related to the "Matter of Middle-earth" would you prefer to see? Sauron would then have suspended his campaign against Minas Tirith, and instead sent his armies north-west, through Rohan towards Isengard. He believed that Sauron would never return, so he had his own set of schemes. By the time we meet Saruman in The Lord of the Rings, hes up to no good. Would the One Ring even work for anyone but Sauron? Both the direct and symbolic aspects could have helped Saruman expand his empire by winning adherents and frightening potential opponents. Here's a new theory concerning Saruman and Grima. A capable bearer would have all that power, plus whatever native power he or she had to begin with. Basically it took a super-human with a super-sword to chop the ring off of Sauron's hand and he only did that with a lucky hit. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. The White Wizard -- at the height of his power -- could have been a match for the Ringless Dark Lord. He said yes!" The pair had met through mutual friends years ago, but had an immediate spark when they reconnected last year. I would think that Saruman, a Maia, would be in that category. The White Wizard truly believed that he could resist both the dark lord's power and then, when in possession of it, the lure of the Ring of Power. Saruman later describes himself as "Ring-maker" when taunting Gandalf. The Ring also has his - what does it say? In this scenario, Sauron likely would have recovered his Ring and covered all the lands in a second darkness. This mod, although it doesn't add a new staff to the game, creates a unique design for all of the Skyrim staves. There's the slight possibility that Saruman would have given the One Ring to Sauron and served as lieutenant to the most powerful being in Middle-earth. Tolkien Blog - by Michael Martinez Because the One Ring was the master to all . What happens next? Other powerul magic users such as Galadriel, Gandalf & Saruman can use the Ring to increase their power as that is what it was forged by Sauron to do, but it will never truly be completely under their will because Sauron's evil will already exists in the Ring. However, you may visit "Cookie Settings" to provide a controlled consent. Posted September 4, 2007. mysticalblues said: My roommate met someone last week that had a ring that she got in St. Thomas. rev2023.3.3.43278. In fact, he had started searching for the . If Saruman's Uruks had been successful and he had taken possession of the One Ring, how would have things turned out differently in Middle-earth? But there isn't a blind following of obedience in Tolkien at least not with wise and just characters depending on the circumstances. Sauron was stronger than Gandalf the Grey, but . The greatest act of disobedience in LOTR had possibly the greatest consequences which in the end saved the Quest of the Ring and saved Middle-Earth that being Eomer's act of disobedience. #2. Although he never appears directly in the books and is only shown in the movies in a flashback to the War of the Last Alliance, his corruptive influence is felt nearly everywhere in Middle-Earth. Well what DID the Ring do for Sauron? Such uses can be done without permission from the copyright owner.In the event I use art of yours or you have any questions, please contact me and we'll get it sorted straight away! Keep Your Powder Dry: Firearms for 5E Fantasy CampaignsNearly 40 firearms with customization options for 5E games, plus magic items, feats for gunslingers, and the alchemist character class! Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for science fiction and fantasy enthusiasts. What would have happened to Saruman if Sauron acquired the One Ring? **, And this kind of begs the question - What had been done with the three? Ar Pharazon the Golden defeated Sauron, before he lost the ring, and he was just a Numenorean. He now lives with his family in Lynchburg VA and is an avid outdoorsman. Again Aragorn refuses it, apparently without any internal struggle whatsoever. Saruman used the seeing stones(palintir) to keep up with Sauron, as did Boromirs Father (name slips me now), Sarumaon would be no more than a snivinling fool of Sauron. The White Wizard put Isengard at Sauron's disposal until his armies were defeated at Helms Deep and his staff was broken by the resurrected Gandalf. Is Gandalf the Gray's power actually limited or did he merely promise to not use it? For one, the Ring wasn't a tool or a weapon of war that anyone could use for anything. Telchar, an uber Dwarven smith who lived in the first age, forged Narsil. Although they did oppose the will of Sauron, while he did not have the one, they were still subject to his will, if he regained it, and all that had been done with them would be revealed. Even still, Frodo set the benchmark for hope and volunteered to take the One Ring to Mordor, where he destroyed it and saved the world from disaster. It would be difficult for Sauron. In the case of vague powers the One Ring would enhance one's powers based on one's strengths. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. :)#LordoftheRingsWhatIf #Saruman #WhatIfSaruman In the Silmarillion we have Iluvatar's strongest creation falling from grace.In many ways Saruman's fall is the 3rd Age equivalent. Saruman wasnt an elf, or even a man. As Istari, they were to exhort the free peoples of the world in preparation for a possible future conflict with Sauron. All of Saruman's scheming nearly came to fruition in The Two Towers. Either way Sauron would've just destroyed him at some point if he got the ring back; Saruman getting the Ring is another . That is, however, a legitimate concern when entering any fight: any weaponry you wield may be captured and used against you. In the chapter "the White Rider" (LOTR Book 3, chapter 5), shortly after Ugluk's foray has been defeated, Gandalf gives a detailed analysis of Saruman's motives and Sauron's concerns. Earlier in the same letter we see just exactly how useful the Ring would have been to a hypothetical Ring-bearing Saruman (or anyone else, for that matter): Sauron would not have feared the Ring! When it comes to the Stranger, played by Daniel Weyman, we learned he is one of the Istari, but we did not learn his actual name. I'm no Tolkien expert but I assume there would have been a great war between Isengard and Mordor, which would have affected all parts of Middle Earth. Sauron was the master ring-maker in LOTR, but Saruman also forged a ring of power so that he could eventually challenge the Dark Lord. I say this because Saruman would never have destroyed the ring and so the ring would have eventually consumed him since Sauron was its true master. If he would have been strong enough to control the ring, what would have happened to Sauron? The eagles cant carry the Fellowship to Mordor because Gandalf cant simply summon a squadron of birds to divebomb Mount Doom. Middle-earth & J.R.R. And in The Rings of Power, when the . I'm a little vague on this point. Here's a hypothesis: Yes, Saruman knew the lore of making such rings but not necessarily the technique (as anyone who has tried to recreate an article based on a knitting or crochet pattern found online can tell you!) He reasoned that his total control of Middle . The Palantri. Saruman is my favorite figure of all time . What would happen if a Barrow-wight had taken the One Ring and why didn't they? How to show that an expression of a finite type must be one of the finitely many possible values? In Tolkiens writings, they came across the sea. We know that disobedience can bring ruin such as what happened with the Noldor when they disobeyed the Valar or the Army of the Dead when they disobeyed Isildur and broke their oath to fight for him. But maybe thats a reason why hes Saruman and not Gandalf. And if the hearts of men were not so easily tainted, the Ringwraiths might never have been brought into being. . Lots of great, exclusive content, even discounts on our original merch! RELATED: Thranduil Was a Jerk - But Lord of the Rings' Only Dark Elf Was Actually Evil. JavaScript is disabled. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Covering the hottest movie and TV topics that fans want. Will to conquer all life in Middle-earth was the last bit I believe. But there are important differences between Saruman's position, if he had taken the Ring in Isengard, and Frodo's position when he claimed the Ring in Mordor. 3 yr. ago. But what if the Stranger is a different wizard we all know from The Lord of the Rings? With the more powerful becoming all the more corrupted. Meanwhile, Gandalf kept an eye on Bilbo and noticed that he was not aging. With possession of the one ring he would have replaced Sauron (would have wiped him out entirely). . Sauron once again lay dormant for over a millennium in the Second Age, secretly preparing another attempt to take over Middle-earth. This one, too, was controlled by Sauron. For The War of the Rohirrim anime, one answer might draw on the "canon" of the Peter Jackson films. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Saruman volunteered. In Middle-earth history, it seems likely Saruman arrived before Gandalf did. They are not beasts. Would he have given the Ring back to Sauron or would he have kept the ring and contested Sauron for power over Middle-earth? Doom to be destroyed and not taken to be used by some great leader. He is, I suppose, the same order of creature as Sauron himself, so could he?

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