The new Kirk does suck. The settlement requires the gunmaker to reimburse owners of . I have been purchasing and using Sig firearms exclusively for over 40 years. Bagnell told TTAG that he believes the problem with the striker-fired P320 is an inadequate sear/striker connection (he has images he says illustrate this on his website). The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. In the case of the 320, lightning is striking the same place an awful lot. They mandate more discharges, with more property damage, more injuries, and more deaths. The safety WILL prevent the gun from firing with a trigger pull when activated, but it should never come to that. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. ABC News ran two reports on the topic last week, highlighting one particular cop in Bridge City, Texas who is suing SIG for $15 million. how do I get one for my P320? The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. -You plan on getting rid of your P320, great! The thing is, youd probably need to generate many Gs of force in both directions simultaneously. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. If the military was going to go cheap then they should have thrown Taurus into the mix. In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution. Theres a couple of possibilities. Just because someone shoots hyper-unrealistic 3 gun competition, subscribes to Recoil magazine and routinely watches their fave rave YouTube cult of personality channel shill for the latest company that paid him off doesnt make them a [emailprotected]$$. . So I will just continue to carry Mexican style with my striker fired polymer wonder nine from a company that may or may not be SIG. He said hes a gun owner and a concealed carry permit holder. The Glocks lack of a manual safety has caused untold thousands of needless cripplings and death. Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. Fair enough. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/. He was told to shoot two rounds. Nope. . who sells them? They wouldnt have adopted it if was. Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. They did, however, note that when they were contacted by ABC, the company pointed out specific circumstances that were subsequently uncovered in the investigations of a number of these incidents. But this time, the sound bites used were different. About $300. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. Now when you lose your grip on lawn mowers or snow blowers they will not keep travelling foreword all by themselves. Have heard of no issues like the alleged gremlin caused spontaneous discharges of the P320 in other Sig models. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. This is the only post fix tale of p320 failure I have heard that is not some form of but it just went off, I didnt do nutthin! The problem is non-existent. PDs are dropping them from contracts. I bought a P320 and went through the voluntary upgrade. Fact is most SF carry what they want and the Marine Recon I know very well who has friends in that community told me many in the Navy NSW program still carry the Mk 25, they don want a striker fired pistol that can hydrolock in water. Charlton, headquartered in Victoria, B.C., for comment on its original story, but neither responded. Its pathetic how often these legal stunts work. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. Too Many Accidents Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. Grow up, you aint all that! That is the point of most of the video at the end of the article. Seems kind of like a Sig apologist article. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. The problem was strikers. He had to be reprimanded by the range officer twice for unsafe handling of his pistol. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. Was it his fault? People who know how to handle guns prudently and safely. Then when the gun still wouldnt operate right, field stripped it and cleared the debris, but didnt understand the gun enough to realize it was now super broken. It sure wasnt her fault though, because she was flooring the. Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. This is this same company that couldnt build their own freaking rifles after multiple attempts (Sig SG550 series) when that rifle had been made in Switzerland for years without issue. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. Have you ever noticed that big trouble usually comes in groups of 3. Pity that some of the most common reactions fall into two over simplistic categories: 1. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. If you want to find the lowest form of life on the planet interview any C.E.O. Happy with my old S&W revolvers, 3rd Gen S&W pistols,1911s and a slew of P226s. There was nothing wrong with the Glock action, it was a training issue. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. I still own them all. At rest, cocked, it may very well have enough oomph to set some primers off. Glock is being sued too, because once loaded and a round is chambered, it also has a much lighter trigger than a DA/SA. Its also interesting that theres apparently no corresponding flood of civilian lawsuits against SIG with similar claims of guns going off, even though the public owns far more P320s than do law enforcement agencies. That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest. All those customers who paid $1600 now had a limited function paper weight. In the former case, you would need upward movement coming to a sudden stop to bump up the drop safety at the same time you imparted rearward momentum to the gun to try and move the striker. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. So I give a ton of credit to Shatner for reading the reality of what it was and in essence, saving it. The Milwaukee police department has had 3 incidents of the Sig discharging while being in a holster sitting in a patrol car in 2023. To put it simply, they are expensive cheaply made junk. Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. The guys at the LGS saw only one broken striker but it confirmed what the manager who had the P320 go off and my thoughts. A shame but then no one was hurt. Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. I didnt even touch it! Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. 1:07. I am still waiting for the UPS man (not from the devil but from Sig) I will not hold my breath. For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. As for the Serpa holster, this is a bunch of internet echo chamber BS that originated with Obama-era federal agencies putting a bad light on a good product in order to sway public opinion and thus damage the manufacturers bottom line. The Collette suit, for example, lists 39 such discharges, all but five of which involved law enforcement officers. Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. (The defect couldnt be duplicated after the crash.). That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. Fourth, no one takes Taurus seriously. The use of a modified [SIG] P226 holster created an unsafe condition by allowing a foreign object to enter the holster, causing the unintended discharge.. Each incident gives them more blood for their macabre dance, and another tic-mark for their context-free gun violence tally. The Defiant regardless of who is the captain. brakes, remember? The suit also cites other occurrences of "un-commanded" discharges with the 320 while holstered. Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. Sig, take this firearm off the market, and recall. There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. Second, your claim that the military is dumping because theyre problematic? (c) If conduct constituting an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under another . is the manual safety a kit you add? Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! Golly didnt Sig catch he!! No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. But Im observant enough to see the same voices that said in 1985 that This new fangled Glock is a just a plastic toy! Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. Too much MIM in that crap SIG, the old ones were great. I call b-s on all these my gun magically went off. That said, I own multiple P320s, but all of them have the manual safety due to personal preference. Maybe in South America a poor military did, but thatd be about it. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. Note the addition of ominous background music in the second seven-minutes-longer version (there was no music in the Good Morning America version). So does any of this mean theres something wrong with the P320? They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. to docile, too subtle, to contextual. Second, every gun maker has made lemons in the past. So it never had a history of a potential valid claim for ambulance chasers to work off of. They've also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. The military is much smarter and no, the gun is not junk. There are tens of millions of gun owners, far more than there are cops, and the VAST majority of those folks buy their guns and drop them a nightstand drawer or up on a closet shelf and leave it until theyre needed. Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? There was no holster involved. saw the video, doesnt explain how it bypasses striker pin safety. The heads up testing was immediately finished the Sig was the winner. Its the expert who gets caught up in the routine and stops paying attention. Sound familiar? Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. Excellent work. I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. Sig P320 is just one of many pistols with Safety related. According to Section 22.05 of the Texas Penal Code, engaging in deadly conduct with a firearm is considered a felony of the third degree. The suit mirrors lawsuits filed across the country involving the semi-automatic gun known as the P320. Asking for a friend. The bullet struck a soldier in the leg. After watching a friend get killed by a Remington 700 by another friend and the ensuing fallout 31 years ago I decided that I didnt care if the P320 was fixed, it was getting sold. No, it doesnt. Oh, if you another thread reader asking Wheres the Sig/Glock bashing? Great job, this threat needed some levity! With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. Clients such as law enforcement officers whose negligent discharges could result in their being disciplined or fired unless it can be proven that the gun was at fault. So park the Cops suck cause they aint gunfighters! bull**it. Oct 20, 2022 #36 ; vh20 said: . 01:10. Sig Sauer's P320 is widely used by police departments across the country, and is a big seller in the civilian market, with about half a million sold nationwide. . Having it as the ONLY trigger pull the weapon has seems (to me) clearly dangerous. So even if, as the ambulance chaser claims, the striker leg could vibrate off of the sear face, it could not discharge unless the drop safety was also disengaged because the drop safety prevents movement of the striker sufficient to make the firing pin protrude from the breech face. They admitted their problem and fixed it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, Simply put, the P320 is not safe and the lawsuits arent frivolous. But Shatner? On Thursday, M.D. The second, longer version of the ABC story again included comments from Joshua Harrison, the consultant ABC hired to independently assess the P320. Then theres the fact that the branches of the military have put the P320 design through their own batteries of testing and found it duty worthy. Really? Jeff Bagnell, a lawyer in Westport, Conn., who has litigated 10 cases, mostly by commercial gun owners, related to SIG P320 misfires across several U.S. states, took note of the accident involving the Canadian special forces soldier. there is no better. But were way past the days of major league, internationally known gunmakers turning out complete crap, selling it and the public living with it. The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! Its a novelty, its got issues! A plastic gun that has a tendency to go off by itself. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . Sig P320 Accidental Discharge 2021 Perhaps nothing speaks more clearly to the need for a total recall than the fact that in 2021, over four years after Sig Sauer offered its voluntary upgrade, people are still suffering injuries and lawsuits continue to be filed. And thats just my opinion. Personally they should have gone with the Glock, its not for me but is a proven gun. 00:03. Im more of a DS9 guy. Later when he was driving he shifted his weight and this caused the trigger to be pushed back further and it went off and shot him and the bullet then also blew a big hole in the floor board of this truck. Mine is very accurate. , 54 people all shooting themselves. Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. Either one could have been a gun or a Barbie. To be sure, Ive informally asked every other owner of a Serpa holster when I meet them, whether they have ever had an ND because of the holster. In fact, I dont own ANY striker fired polymer pistol. . His haste to avoid the embarrassment of his gun being seen on the floor turned the incident from a wardrobe malfunction (accidental exposure of a concealed weapon, probably just a reprimand from the OPR) into a negligent discharge (the gun being fired led to him personally getting fired!). What a wonderful parody of a MAC cultist! I have never had to have one serviced or replaced. These cops seem pretty dang stupid if they put loaded guns in gym bags and purses with other stuff and carry them around, especially a gun that lacks manual safeties. Quit blaming cops or the military, these guns have a serious problem. So the tally goes against the surrounding area, not against the gun free zone. The details are not out yet, but they use Glocks, and I will make a good bet that her trigger finger did the deed. Bravo. The trigger bar has to push up on it, for it to release. Had a buddy, years ago, that was a deputy for Orange County in California. Fine. Back in 2017, SIG instituted a voluntary upgrade program to replace the original production triggers with new enhanced triggers designed to fix the issue that we and others observed when the pistols were dropped onto hard surfaces. Mechanical engagement of sear to striker not deep enough (wanted lighter, smoother trigger pull without giving it any hand workmanship required with the deep notch much safer classic systems made since 1900) Result another big fail. You couldnt ask questions. This guy had been working at the LGS for over a decade and never had an AD or ND, he was the strictest when it came to safety. Remember the stupidity of the far right is infinite and the blind greed of the gun makers prove they could not care less about human life and suffering.

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